Leaderboard

.

My two tsuba masks

Even if is Japan, tell them you are sending it back. Undisclosed flaws is the worst trick.

OK, this is not meant as a criticism, so if Ian is out there reading this, I did enjoy your talk! Perhaps the word 'bloopers' was way too strong, but here are some things I noticed during the video, having watched it twice. 1. Portuguese with guns landed on Tanegashima Island in 1542 or (1543) depending on who is talking, not in 1534. 2. Tanegashima carries a strong accent in Japanese on GA, (not on 'shi') somewhat like Tane' /GA'shima, but perhaps in the West the accent is different. 3. The matchlock did not stay 'stagnant or stable' during the Edo period as massive improvements and refinements were made in their strength and weight, etc., but all within the matchlock remit. By Western standards, yes, there was no automatic evolution to other locks, this is true. Although flintlocks and wheel-locks did make occasional appearances, they were not encouraged for a number of reasons. 4. The various-sized holes in the serpentine (not all had holes) could have been used for a pin to hold the match, but generally they weren't, and as you say, loading would have been extremely dangerous with a fixed match there. 5. The longer 'wall' guns were fired from castle wall loopholes, but the fat hand-cannons of up to 30 kg were fired by hand, or rested on bales or mounds of earth on the battlefield. 6. The stocks were not made in 2 sections. There was a slit most of the way below the ramrod on many but not all guns, but above the ramrod the wood was solid. It was a kind of flexible figure of 8, the upper section gripping the barrel and the lower section gripping the ramrod. 7. From what I understand re the barrels, they were first a single sheet wrapped around a steel rod, then the kazura makibari spiral helix was performed over that. (see Sawada's book for illustration.) A double helix was better, as you say, and three twists were considered the best. (More than two were generally alluded to by the smiths as So-makibari or 'complete' helix work. 8. You mention not being able to see any writing on the gun, but there is an imprint seal of the lockmaker on the brass lockplate. The barrels were signed underneath, but you would need to remove the barrel to see if it is signed there with a place and name, and a date if you are extra lucky. 9. You mentioned they were made until the end of the 1800s, but this is true only for very rare commemorative examples. They were completely obsolete by 1870, having been superseded by foreign imports (and native versions) with improved loading and firing mechanisms and rifling during a process from about 1840 to 1860, i.e. mid-century. 10. Sugawa's book has been a stop-gap lifesaver for people in the West, but for multiple reasons it needs really serious editing.

No mask on this one, but I am told that these are items for Noh plays.

Choji oil is really just mineral oil with a bit of clove scent added to it. Tsubaki oil is camilla oil. A good quality mineral oil such as what you can buy at just about any pharmacy will work too. There is nothing that you can do yourself about the rust. That is something that this group strongly advises is done by a fully qualified sword polisher. A sword care kit will have uchiko powder in it. This really wont do anything to remove active rust, and can damage the sword further. It is strongly recommended that its use be avoided.

Noh mask ans music instruments..... in line withe Dale's tanto tsuba

Hey guys, A recent acquisition to collection and I felt it deserved to be shared. It's a Tokubetsu Kaga koshirae, original to the sword, resided in the private collection of an armor collector in Japan for over 50 years. Sword it was made for is a Naokatsu, made in Echigo. I would appreciate it if you could share additional information, as I have only just started studying it yesterday. Thanks

I will say, that most if not all people here are pretty opposed to any attempts at restoration of any traditionally made Japanese sword. Even those that are rusted. There might be a very rare exception on a blade that is actually worthless (multiple fatal flaws, retempered, broken/damaged beyond repair, etc.) that may not draw the ire of the membership here, but there are too many examples of some guy trying to polish up the sword his grandpa brought back from WW2 only to ruin a 200+ year old of beautiful history in their attempts. It's happened a few times already in the very short time I've been here and on the FB nihonto groups I'm in. If you look at a polisher's page like David Hofhine, you'll see VERY rusty blades brought back to an incredible blade. So many swords are not "too far gone" like many amateurs may believe. Remember that becoming a properly trained polisher (Togishi) is a +/- 7 year commitment under the apprenticeship of a master. It's as fine of an art in many respects as the actual forging of nihonto.

Compared to the huge knowledge base of Japanese swords, little is known about gunsmiths, and smith name lists are very rare. As to 'conversions', Roman, most appraisers and dealers are not aware of the very slight difference. There were two types of these, and at the new Nagoya 'Touken World' you can see a rack of each. The first are originally matchlocks, and there is a long shallow cutout in the right rim of the stock for the pan and lid. Conversions usually have the remnants of this long cutout, which is no longer necessary. Has yours had a later plug of wood fitted in there? Then there is the type that is to all intents using a tradionally-made matchlock stock and barrel, by the same smiths, except made solely for a percussion lock system. The cutout there is only large enough to take the nipple surround. Your pictures are rather dark, but from what I can see the latter looks the more likely candidate. It's a small difference, I agree. In my experience there are matchlock purists, who attempt to reduce a percussion gun's working parts back into a matchlock, so to such people this difference would be meaningful. History buffs might also enjoy seeing the evidence of overlap, two phases of Japanese gun history. In general though, it's horses for courses.

I also use these acrylic display stands (can be found in mineral shops for items like agate disks etc.).

I use these plastic stands I get inexpensively from a site called ‘WISH’. Items are direct from China in most cases. They come in different sizes, but I find the 5cm tall ones work best for almost all tsuba. No problem with scratching on iron tsuba, but if there is a concern I suppose the edges could be sanded down a bit or a small piece of cloth/silk could be used to cushion tsuba. They only cost about 50 cents a piece depending on quantity purchased. Other nice features are: they are stackable (don’t take up much room), because they are clear they don’t take away from or block viewing the tsuba, and if they get broken or lost it’s not a huge financial loss.

Osuriage mumei katana, 66.5cm nagasa with copper habaki and saya only. Gunome hamon in nie-deki with a thick habuchi. Deep sori, extended kissaki and raised shinogi. Futatsuji-hi on one side and the reverse with bo-hi and soe-hi. $700 + shipping & PP

Well, one of my best attached. I almost was foolish enough to sell this one during a dry financial period.

Dear @Barrie B, The masks on your sword are Okame (also called Otafuku/Ofuku/Uzume) and Hyottoko (“fire man”). They are usually considered a pair (and have been for hundreds of years). Some traditions call them husband and wife. Together they symbolize good luck and jolliness. Okame is also known as the Moon Goddess who played a very important role in getting the Sun Goddess (Amaterasu) to come out of her cave and give light to the World (part of the legends of the founding of Japan). She did a bawdy dance dropping her clothes and making all the other gods laugh, so Amaterasu (the Sun Goddess) came out of her cave to see what was happening. Believe it or not, Okame was originally considered the epitome of Japanese beauty (evidentially Dale @Spartancrest doesn’t care for the ancient beauty standards in Japan… personally I'm with Dale...) Today they are very common masks that are used in lots of festivals in Japan. As I’ve said before, while this is a wakazashi, it is not necessarily a “merchant sword” (working hard to get rid of that old and misinformed stereotype…) Okame derived from Noh plays which were written by and performed for the aristocracy (Samurai, NOT merchants). While she has evolved into a more common figure, Okame’s origins were in the Bushi class. Grev @kissakai, yours is fascinating because it shows a man stuck between the two, diametrically opposed versions of a woman. Your menuki are Okame and Hannya. Okame is considered the perfect Wife (ever cheerful and supportive) whereas Hannya (on the opposite side) is considered the ultimate jealous woman. In one of the Okame legends, she was supposedly based on a real Wife who gave her own life in support of her husband. Hannya on the other hand became so jealous that she was transformed into a horned devil with a serpent’s body that became so hot that she burned her lover to death in jealousy. Your sword must have been designed by Freud, because your kashira is Hyottoko (the Husband) caught between these two extremes!

Type (Tachi, Katana, Wakizashi, Tanto, Naginata, Other) : Katana Ubu, Suriage or O-Suriage : O-Suriage (I think) Mei : (Mumei, Signature) : Mumei Papered or not and by whom? : NBTHK Hozon Paper Era/Age : Nanbokucho to early muromachi Jidai Shirasaya, Koshirae or Bare Blade? : Shirasaya Nagasa/Blade Length : 64,5CM Sori : Uncertain see pictures Hamon Type : Jihada : Other Hataraki Visible : Flaws : Some markings on the hamon and some scratches, see images for foraging imperfections Sword Location : The Netherlands Will ship to : Everywhere Payment Methods Accepted : Bank Transfer is preferred Price and Currency : SOLD Other Info and Full Description : This Chiyozuru Katana was acquired by me in the Netherlands as a bare blade, with no mounting. I was able to mount it in a shirasaya. It has a Habaki as well. The blade has a beautiful Jigane and dates to the early Muromachi period. There are a few foraging imperfections on the blade, I have done my best to highlight these imperfections in the images. The blade is made in the Yamashiro tradition by the Chiyozuru school. Beautiful sori and hamon activity aswell.

Horrible cheap fake. It is so far away from the real thing. Sorry.

Wow...stunning koshirae, and textbook Kaga. Lovely!

As far as I know, saku and kore are interchangeable largely. Don't think that would be considered a mistake. You get saku, kore, kore kitau etc. It's still complete as to meaning. Was just going to post that link that Bruce did. You can also visit http://meiboku.info/mei/zodiac/index.htm

Ha! You're right, they left off that last kanji. We've see a couple Mantetsu over the years with errors, but it's pretty rare. This is where I go to translate Zodiacal dates: Japaneseswordindex.com - Zodiac Dates, but it's Spring 1943. Do me a BIG favor and post a photo of the full serial number on the back edge of the nakago. I like to file a couple of shots of the overall rig, too, with fittings. @Kiipu @BANGBANGSAN

Okan, very beautiful! I hope the bugs are gone and the leather TSUKA ITO can be restored !

Wonderful! Glad it arrived safely.

Followup: I found this article from the British museum useful because it lists their techniques for doing some cleaning as well as maintaining lacquers and some fabrics. Didn't answer all my questions such as how to stabilize rust or spot-clean silk but it's a start for others who may be in my position. https://www.britishm...-suit-samurai-armour

I browse that site pretty often. They are definitely using a low contrast, diffused lighting setup but they do that for every blade so I think it's just a chosen method/preference as opposed to trying to be deceitful. Some blades it probably does a disservice to actually. If I had to guess they're reducing the clarity and texture filters as well in Photoshop to give it that soft look. It makes it pretty hard to judge the blades, at least for a newbie like me. Below are examples of some sites that I think have high quality photography. https://swordsofjapan.com/ https://www.owazamono.com/fine-swords https://eirakudo.shop/ http://world.seiyudo.../?orderby=price-desc

Every time a blade is polished (whether to remove rust, fix a chip, or just renew the shiny surface), metal is removed from the blade. Most nihonto are more or less a sandwich of hard/soft steels with the hardened (tempered) edge in the middle on the cutting edge. The hamon is both a functional transition of this transition from soft to hard steel as well as an artistic expression of the swordsmith in their clay/tempering skills. After many polishes, an excessive polish (such as one to remove a deep chip/damage to the blade), or work on a blade with an already narrow band of hardened cutting edge, you will either run into the hamon running off of the blade to the edge (as in your case) or in the core steel coming through the hamon higher up in the blade by the shinogi ji. Both of these are considered a fatal flaw as they show a sword that is "tired" i.e. been polished too many times and doesn't retain enough of its hard/soft steel to maintain its function as it was originally in its freshly forged state. Any blade with a fatal flaw will almost never paper at a shinsa and the collectability and value of the sword goes down drastically.

According to Sesko, there were a few:

You see this quite often with Mino-Den blades, there are Kanemoto swords with basically microns of Hamon left in the valleys.

@thutson - I was looking through this thread today and looks like we have a very similar mask design:

Sorry Bruce I just had the chance to remove and have a close look at the habaki. These are just gold inlays(decorative) I was hoping to find that it was holding a split or something

Hamon should be present for full length of blade and also in kissaki. If it drops off it is often because blade was badly chipped and reshaped during polish. It is a characteristic of some smiths ( I think) but not on this blade in my inexpert opinion. Run away.

笹葉 抱茗荷透 – Open work of bamboo leaves and daki myoga FYI: 【つば屋】　武州伊藤派・笹葉/抱き茗荷透かし鐔・透鐔　　　検索：（赤坂/尾張/長州）の落札情報詳細 - ヤフオク落札価格検索 オークフリー (aucfree.com)

Evening Cicada / Higurashi 蜩

Something that may be informative on the subject is Tamio Tsuchiko's book The New Generation of Japanese Swordsmiths. In particular there's a chapter on Ohno Yoshimitsu, and the focus is on a shift in thinking and considerations he goes through in order to support sword orders for marital arts usage, which is not the same as his typical orders to forge swords for collector appreciation. This is one of the best living Japanese swordsmiths, who produces swords either for appreciation or for practical use.

I was very priviliged to join a sword viewing event today that featured 20 high quality swords. And I agree with others that there are levels to collecting. However not everything in my collecting dream is focused on quality. I cannot afford that way of collecting. I believe it is important to find your own way in collecting. I have realized my own ultimate preference hasn't really changed all that much. 😅 However it is important to try to understand quality, and the difference in items. I admit I often struggle with some very high level items, while with some it is easier to understand the desirability. For example perhaps my favorite sword of the day was big naoshi with Hōju attribution, it just hit me. However I understand that for example the Tokubetsu Jūyō swords were far above that one, still I cannot explain it by reason. I am just looking the list of all the wonderful swords I wrote down, and I even puzzle myself how I liked the Hōju so much. I don't think the naginata in the opening is a bad item. I feel it is just a normal sword. For my own collecting preferences it lacks the size that is very important to me, and it is of shape that I dont personally like. On the plus side it is ubu and signed.

I really like the wood patterning on that, congratulations on your acquisition. I don't really know anything about cicada, but I came across this one yesterday. https://www.ebay.com...r=artemis&media=COPY

I like Ian's videos. Was happy to see one on Tanegashima.

Wow gentlemen! Thank you for your quick responses. I appreciate details of some of the underlying factors that helped form your conclusions. I don't know if I would have ever arrived at any reasonable estimation of source or date, as you can see from my shot in the dark "Mid-Edo,Shinto" guess. Just identifying the variety of features in the Hamon was a bit mind boggling, let alone trying to determine the pattern in the Hada and Boshi. Measurements I can make, but the more nuanced determinations are quite a ways beyond me. I have to ask if the information I provided was accurate and sufficient for your evaluation, or is there additional information I could have provided. It took me the better part of a week to prepare my inquiry, reading the many great articles, especially by Markus Sesko, taking pictures, sizing pictures, orienting pictures, trying to learn at least the rudimentary terminology, etc. I have 4 additional swords that I would like to submit and want to make sure I do it properly so I don't waste your time. I will also work to find a way to provide better pictures where possible.

What's the bloopers, Piers? Just guessing, but anything to do with these guns having regional characteristics?

Here is an image of the front of the piece...

You can ask Polish collectors (there are a few) but generally it can be: 1. Japanese are always afraid of something and use any possible excuse to not do something because "its absolutely forbidden". Often its not. 2. For postal service you need a direct flight from Poland. As I think there are none over Russia, I don't think they exist at all. Closest country with a direct flight is probably Germany or Netherlands. Without direct flights swords are problematic. 3. FEdex and UPS can carry swords but only if a dealer has a special contract with them.

I will just throw my one and only Okina mask tanto tsuba in, it is not that different to Tom's example except the mask and fan are on the one side with a flute on the ura - mine is not signed so impossible to attribute. I think we are all learning a great deal from this thread, great insight from George. Baz, by trying to find something about your pieces we have all gained, thanks very much.

George you continue to amaze me with the depth and breadth of your knowledge. You continue to make significant contributions here on Nihontomessageboard.

Some more iron as requested My wifes favourite Tsuba.

Hoan, NBTHK Tokubetsu Hozon

Sadaie, NBTHK Kicho

Yes. Just when I think I'm all about collecting Muromachi or earlier pieces (sometimes a Momoyama one, or a Kunitomo/Hazama)- A gent comes along and shows me a late Edo piece that makes me go "Wow!". I'm also a big fan of Tsuchiya Yasuchika, and he is right that the tsuba does look like his style. But he usually signed his pieces, even though sometimes in atypical places.

#2 Tiger and Dragon by Watanabe Arichika, 70 mm

Painting on paper by Kikuchi Yosai, 1788 - 1878, depicting Ashikaga Takauji signed : rokuju shichinen YOSAI Eric

Well, since Ako had their festival recently it might be a good time to post piccies of my Bashin!