Tanegashima Pistol Barrel

[watsonmil]

Could I prevail upon our Kanji experts to translate the signature on a Tanegashima barrel. There is also an interesting Mon or possibly script saying on the top of the barrel. I can not find it in my book on Mon, so I assume it is a saying. Anyway in a couple of weeks once the pistol is restored I shall post photos of the completed project. It is a beauty ! Thank you, ... Ron Watson

[Bazza]

Could I prevail upon our Kanji experts to translate the signature on a Tanegashima barrel. There is also an interesting Mon or possibly script saying on the top of the barrel. I can not find it in my book on Mon, so I assume it is a saying. Anyway in a couple of weeks once the pistol is restored I shall post photos of the completed project. It is a beauty ! Thank you, ... Ron Watson

Ron,

Off the top of my head the mei begins OSHU KUNITOMO... The rest would take getting the books out and I'm sure someone else will have read it by then...

 

The small script to the left of the mei looks it could be a number '22 dai' ??? (One of my teppo is numbered '21' on the bbl, breechplug, lock and stock).

 

The gold inlaid kanji is beautifully rendered.

 

Regards,

BaZZa.

[watsonmil]

Thanks Bazza, ... I was able to make out the Kunitomo kanji, as I own a couple of other Kunitomo guns. I hope the guys don't think me lazy when it comes to kanji translations, .... but for whatever reason try as I might it just doesn't click with me. I've tried Harry Watson's counting strokes and catagorizing, and various sword kanji books, ... but all I ever come up with is jibberish. When I finish the restoration I'll post a couple of photos. I wouldn' t even mind showing the step by step procedure in their restoration, ... but I'm afraid the moderators or some members might not approve, ... this being primarily a blade and fittings site. Again thanks, ... Ron Watson

[Nobody]

As far as I can read;

江劦国友丹波大掾+something … (Goshu Kunitomo Tanba daijo …)

[Bazza]

Koichi san,

 

Thank you for that - I was just about to get Nelson out and start "serious" work...

 

Ron, need a better closeup photo of the "something, something" characters after DAIJO.

 

Regards,

BaZZa.

[watsonmil]

Dear Bazza,

Here's a slightly different angle of the signature. I do not do digital photography, ... I rely on my son's expertise and I won't see him again for a couple of weeks. The last kanji appears poorly engraved, ... or more likely has suffered a slight ding. I appreciate your help and above all patience. Regards, ... Ron Watson

[k morita]

Hi,

The inlay on the top of the barrel is not a mon.

 

The inlay is 路 (ro/michi).

[Bazza]

Dear Bazza,

Here's a slightly different angle of the signature. I do not do digital photography, ... I rely on my son's expertise and I won't see him again for a couple of weeks. The last kanji appears poorly engraved, ... or more likely has suffered a slight ding. I appreciate your help and above all patience. Regards, ... Ron Watson

Dear Ron,

After DAIJO. as you note, the characters are hard to read. I get a feeling of NAGA about the first one, but the second may well await the expertise of your son to take a high resolution closeup.

Regards,

BaZZa.

 

EDIT: Morita san, thank you so much for identifying the kanji - sosho script is beyond the ability of most on this Board to read, I'm sure.

Salutations,

Barry Thomas.

[Bugyotsuji]

In my records here I can find two Mei starting with 江州住　Kunitomo Tanba Daijo.

 

Both continue with the character Tachibana 橘; one finishes with Munetoshi 宗俊　and the other with Yasutoshi 康俊.

 

A good-looking barrel.

 

The marks on the left will be the maker's number and his own cross mark, I guess. The number is sometimes repeated on the panlid and inside the stock.

[Bugyotsuji]

Apologies. To clarify, there are two sources that I use for the Mei on Teppo, neither of which are anywhere close to the plethora of books available for swords. Both are in Japanese.　I have mentioned these on this site before, but just to update.

 

The first is Sawada Taira's Nihon no Furuju/Kojuu 日本の古銃　which is perhaps the most reliable modern work on the age periods, regions, schools and Mei of guns, from the beginnings up to the end of the 19th c. Lots of fairly good photographs, mostly black and white. Osaka. 15,000 yen last I heard.

 

The second is Ogasawara and Yasuda's 全国鉄砲鍛冶銘鑑... a set of two books covering all known and recorded Mei on Hinawa-ju. One book lists by region of Japan. The other lists all the Mei in Japanese alphabetical order. No pics, but some maps showing the Teppo Kaji locations. Black and white, Japanese. Out of print, so I have a photocopy of it. Very sought after, but rapidly becoming out of date and the author has been promising for some years to publish an updated version. Printed in 2001, at 3,000 JPY

 

The latter is where I got the information in my post above.

[watsonmil]

I think it's high time I made another contribution to the NMB. My God, ... the knowledge shared with me, ... the camaraderie. I sincerely hope you all realize that in this day and age to find such a wealth of assistance without strings attached in itself deserves a JUYO rating. I too have shared some expertise in my specialized fields over the years simply because I feel that knowledge is a gift to be shared. I more often than not have been ridiculed by my peers as having been stupid enough to give away knowledge that is marketable. This site is a most refreshing vindication of what I and you people obviously believe in, .... Sharing. Hopefully I can get better closeups of the last two kanji,

if I may indulge your patience. ...... Ron Watson

[watsonmil]

A couple of weeks ago members of the forum translated most of the Kanji ..... excepting the last two characters. I promised to try and get a better photo of these. See attached photos. I don't know if they are much better, as this area of the barrel has been slightly bruised ...

perhaps to the point of making the last two letters un-deciferable. Anyways they are posted. If any one can figure them out, ... you guys will. I also promised to show a photo of the pistol once I had completed restoration. See attached. A couple of interesting features will be noted. Whom ever ordered this pistol pulled out all the stops as far as extras. Note in front of the lock there is a tiny storage box with sliding door built into the box. This box was for the storage of tiny bamboo pins which held the match secure in the serpentine ( hammer ).

The match had a habit of blowing out of the serpentine on firing, and the bamboo pin helped secure the match to the serpentine. Spare pins were stored in the little built in box. I have read about this feature, but I have never seen a tanegashima equipped with one, and I have examined many of these firearms. Another feature is not as rare, but not common and that is a silver inlaid bead on the front sight for better sighting. The large brass lined hole in the grip is not likely for the extra match length as found on many tanegashima muskets but rather a primitive laynard ring ( allows a cord to be attached to the pistol and in turn attached to the obi to prevent loss in the heat of action ). The oval opening lined in brass towards the forend of the stock are normally found on musket type tanegashima of large caliber and thought to have been a way of attaching a strap to help hold down the recoil upon firing. In this case being a pistol, ... purely decorative ! Interestingly the pistol was still loaded upon my receipt. I removed by gun worm a couple of wads above the powder charge. The wadding appears to be made out of the inner part of " cattail reed head ", .... although I cannot be certain. Below this was 40 grains of Black Powder as good as the day it was loaded ( amazing in itself ). No ball was present, and it is my supposition that this was done on purpose. When brought into action it would have been a simple matter of dropping a ball down the barrel with a wad on top. If it had contained a ball, riding horseback for instance would soon have shaken it loose from its seated position and perhaps to the point of it falling out of the barrel altogether which would be rather embarrassing .... ie. shooting a blank load when your life depended upon your pistol. The one photo posted shows the pistol with a match, powder charge, wadding, balls, and in the middle the tiny bamboo pins. Only the pwder charge and wads are original to the pistol as found. Pistol is .50 caliber ( 3 monme ). Round with a flat top. The muzzle is swamped. Barrel length is 9 3/4 inches, overall length of pistol is 17 1/4 inches. It is in perfect working order. Thank you for your effort in helping me with the mei. I hope the new photos will be a help. ... Ron Watson

[Lorenzo]

Your pistol has a lot of interesting features! I enjoyed a lot reading about this; I found very interesting the style of the wood! And the tiny box. Can you please share a detail image of that box?

 

Many thanks to Piers for the reference books... I'll do some research to try to get a copy of the first one mentioned

 

A Japanese matchlock pistol his called hinawa-ju as well or it has another name

[Bugyotsuji]

Note the lock plate shape, the use of a brass band instead of mekugi pins, the elongated teardrop trigger, and unusually large trigger guard, and consider Mino Seki-ryu and Yonezawa guns when categorizing your pistol.

 

http://www.xn--u9j370humdba539qcybpym.j ... /minou.jpg

http://www.xn--u9j370humdba539qcybpym.j ... nezawa.jpg

 

The bamboo serpentine pins and box are a fascinating feature which I have never seen before, but which would be extremely useful. Now I can see another reason for the holes in the serpentine pinch leaves.

 

The oval lanyard 'udenuki no kan' hole in the stock indicates by conventional wisdom that this is a cavalry pistol (bajo-zutsu) which once dropped from horseback would be impossible to retrieve without a cord. (As distinct from a regular carrying pistol, or tan-zutsu.) But I have seen mixed examples, so there seem to be just as many exceptions to this rule of thumb.

 

As Lorenzo said above, a closeup picture of the box functions would be very interesting.

[watsonmil]

In reply to Lorenzo, ... sadly photos of the built-in bamboo pin box will have to wait a couple of weeks. I rely on others to do my photography ( my son ).

 

In reply to Piers, ... I note the similarities between the Mino Seki-ryu and the Yonezawa schools. I lean towards the Yonezawa mainly because of the lock plate shape. The pistol seems to incorporate features from both schools. It was certainly not above the Edo Period Gunsmiths to, ... " beg, borrow or steal " ideas from other areas and smiths. The built in bamboo pin box was a design nightmare. The sliding door mechanism is well designed but too elaborate. The tolerances are unbelievable, ... perhaps a thousandth of an inch for some of the mechanism ( hidden behind the lock plate ). I know because I had to figure the bloody thing out in order to restore it. Attributing some of these guns to a specific school is difficult, ... but at least one does not worry too much about " gimei ", ... unlike the swords !

Kind regards, ... Ron Watson

[Bugyotsuji]

This kind of pistol is called a Hitori-aki (opening by itself) in that, depression of the trigger automatically opens the pan lid. On horseback you cannot reach out over your right hand to open the lid, so the process is made easier by the concealed spring...

 

Pic borrowed for educational purposes from Sawada Taira's Nihon no Furuju, p.107. Under "Seki Ryu, Yoju". 関流用銃

[watsonmil]

Dear Piers,

Ah, ... so now I have to redesign my serpentine " pin " box to an automatic pan opening lever. Oh well, ... better to get it corrected now. I will have to also rewrite my article on this feature once I have gotten the proper mechanism working and in place. I can see where this weekend is heading ... %&!*# !

... Ron Watson

[Bugyotsuji]

Better late than never, Ron.

 

(It was your e-mail that got me back-tracking this thing down and only just now this evening did I find this gun, so similar to yours that it may well be the same smith! The faint strokes seem to match...)

 

 

国友丹波橘宗俊　Kunitomo Tamba Tachibana Soshun (?)

 

 

If this name is correct, it may interest you to know that there is a gun recorded by this Kunitomo Tamba Nidai smith with the date 元和五年　Genna (or Genwa) 5.

[watsonmil]

Dear Piers,

I believe SOSHUN can also be read MUNETOSHI ..... is this correct

... Ron Watson

[Bugyotsuji]

Munetoshi or even Muneyoshi would be possible, yes.

[Tanto54]

Dear Ron,

 

The gold inlay on the barrel may read 詠 (Ei) in sosho.

[watsonmil]

Dear George,

Thank you for your suggestion, .... but it has been already translated numerous times as reading RO or MICHI meaning " the way ".

 

... Ron Watson