Manchukuo Or Chinese

[Peter Bleed]

I managed to get a couple of more images of the sword I asked the Board about recently. I emphasize that this is "miltaria" rather than an arm and I can present only a couple more phone shots. I hope they will meet the basic needs of the community that might be interested in this piece. It "looks" like a Japanese sword in general terms. It has a habaki and a artifial yakiba. There is a same cover on the hilt which  generally looks like the Japanese 1875/86 swords. But the thing is well below Japanese production standards. Note that it also carries a silk knot.. It also has a two digit stamped number - 88 - on both the drag and the hilt.There is NO history on where it was acquired but it has been in its current collection for "at least 40 years." I take that to mean that t it is NOT "recent" Chinese production.

Peter

 

 

[lonely panet]

its terrible to look at, very rough workmanship.

 

personally I doubt the authenticity in regards to being made pre 1945, and or made by a Japanese company

  .

 

the whole "chinese made swords for the chinese army" is a muddy, smell area, with very little province or proof to the settle the debate. 

[Bruce Pennington]

Peter,

That is definitely a unique piece! It's possible it might be from another country, like China. You might try it on some other forums that specialize in swords from other lands. I can't remember which forum he's on, but there is a guy named Chen on one of the following that knows Chinese stuff.

 

http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=53

 

http://www.warrelics.eu/forum/Japanese-militaria/

 

http://forums.gunboards.com/forumdisplay.php?52-Firearms-Of-The-Rising-Sun

 

Also, these guys look at a LOT of foriegn swords:

 

http://www.swordforum.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?11-Antique-amp-Military-Sword-Forum

[Peter Bleed]

Thank you Hamfish and Bruce.

Once again the NMB has worked, but I think we have also come up against the limits of our knowledge. I have no interest in thsi sword - well none beyond  some curiosity about Manchuko and the hope that somebody on the Board might find it of interest.

Given the recent appearance of Chinese swords that verge on fantasy or copies of historical types we do have to be careful in trying to sort our things like potential Manchurian or colonial Japanese weapons. I am pretty sure that this sword is authentic. The owner say it has been in his collection for at least 50 years.

In general, I hope that "Chinese sword collecting" will open up. We need more publications on 20th Century - Nationalist.Manchukuoan/Etc swords. And we also truly and deeply need to have better reference studies of Continental sword fittings from the Ching dynasty..

Bruce, I appreciated the suggestions on the other lists. I have tried to access them.And I'll keep trying. BUT my expereince with them always make me impressed by how user friendly the NMB is.

Go Brian! Go NMB

Peter

[Michael T]

Hello Peter,

here are some photos of another sword, being the same like yours.

 

J.E. Culbertson describes it in “Chinese Swords Vol. III - Nationalist / P.R.C”   p. 24 as a Nationalist Chinese Police Sword (photos by Richard Fuller).

 

Regards

Michael

[Peter Bleed]

How embarrassing is this?!.

Am I the last person to discover the books of Jan. E. Culbertson? At least I seem to have not been hanging out with the Chinese sword collecting crowd. Amazon and Google  have informed me of the availability of these books, but at approximately $1.00 a page, I have to wonder if they are worth the investment. To put the finest point on this, are these volumes worth adding to a Japanese sword library?

Peter

[Stopper37]

Not too much help for Japanese sword collectors to be honest, I have all 3 volumes plus the dagger book, there are some examples of Japanese made dress swords in each volume (only a one in Vol 3). Having said that, it would have saved lots of collectors time and effort to search for the "mon" on a kyu gunto handle of a Japanese made Chinese Republican sword (it has a funny looking 9 pointed star that looks like a mon).

 

It is a pity that he did not include the Japanese made Manchukuo daggers in the Chinese dagger book, it was in his draft (he was kind enough to send me an electronic copy before the book was available in 2011).