1890 naval kyu gunto sword for admirals price guide

[lonely panet]

Hello all

 

Im looking for a price guide gentlemen,

i was offered a rare sword by a friend and neither of us really know what the market value is.

 

Its a naval sword for flag rank officers (admiral rank)

it appears to be a early version, leather scabbard, a shorter blade then the normal naval dress saber.

condition is good, but i havnt seen or heard of one for sale or what they are fetching in todays market

 

can anyone advise me of a price please, I was thinking about $1500 to $2000 AUD

 

regards Hamish

[Kai-Gunto]

Pictures!!!

[lonely panet]

no photos, just a average market price is what im looking for

regards Hamish

[kusunokimasahige]

How can you tell what a naval officer's sword for flag rank officers is ?

 

It is not as if the highest IJN officers had any rank distinction which would have shows through their swords (apart from tassel perhaps).

 

To me the provenance sounds like a nice story, but nothing more than a story.

 

Maybe the book on Military swords could shed some light on it. Pricewise it is also unclear.

 

KM

[Kai-Gunto]

no photos, just a average market price is what im looking for

regards Hamish

Thats impossible to give a price without photos.

[lonely panet]

Hello all,

I hope you are all well and collecting madly.

after asking the original question, i thought i would post some quick pics of the sword i mentioned.

 

once again, a very large thanks to the friend who passed it on to me. It means alot when a long term collecter pass's on his beloved items to the next generation for safe keeping.

 

regards Hamish

[lonely panet]

pt2

[lonely panet]

and more

[Kai-Gunto]

Thats a very nice sword. Value ?

[Dr Fox]

Hi Hamfish.

 

I think its fair to say your photos show only the koshirae, not "a rare sword", if the blade is of no value to the sale so be it! Any value you hope for, will be for the 'fittings' only.

 

Denis.

[Kai-Gunto]

It is rare , its a 1883 pattern flag officers (Admirals) naval parade sabre.

[kusunokimasahige]

Is there a reason that they use the Kiri mon of the Toyotomi ? Sort of a pun against the Tokugawa ?

 

KM

[cabowen]

kiri mon is the imperial mon....

[kusunokimasahige]

Not according to my information :

 

he Government Seal of Japan, also called the Paulownia Seal (桐紋 kirimon) or Paulownia Flower Seal (桐花紋 tōkamon), is a mon or a crest used by the Cabinet of Japan and the Government of Japan on official documents. One version is used as the official emblem of the office of the Prime Minister of Japan. It resembles a stylized paulownia flower with 5-7-5 leaves. It was the crest of the Toyotomi clan.

 

The go-shichi no kiri (literally in English Paulownia of 5-7), as it is alternatively called, represents the democratically elected representatives of the government as a contrast to the chrysanthemum of the Imperial Seal of Japan, which represents the Emperor of Japan, who is the symbol of the sovereignty of the state.

 

KM

[cabowen]

Sorry, that is what I meant, it's used by the government....The kiku mon is of course used by the imperial household. Sorry.....

[Drago]

I see, but why did the Japanese government during Meiji and even today use the same mon Toyotomi used? Is there a connection?

[lonely panet]

Thats a very nice sword. Value ?

 

Value? who knows, i only know of a few (3) and none have changed hands in years. i might evan go as fare to say that admirals flag swords are even rarer than a generals grade dress sabers(and more costly too).

 

somebody mentioned the blade, well its just a chromium pladed blade without a habaki. (i can take photos if anyone would like)Im lead to believe that early meji sabers were rather crude compared to the normal standard of sabers incountered from 1930s-40s.

 

regards H

[lonely panet]

Hello all,

 

if any one was interested the blade was only a chromuim plated, i can take some pics if any one wishes.

 

also i would like to point out that the 1883 model has a solid hand guard were as mine has a pireced hand gaurd simular to the 1873 to 1883 series naval sabers please look at page 238 in jim dawsons book.

 

i wait your thoughs, also if any one knows Micheal Quigley (USA) please let me know as i would like to talk swords with him.

 

regards Hamish